"Why Past Governors, Ministers Stole So Much"

James Bawa Magaji was deputy governor of Kaduna State
under Dabo Lere from January 1992 to November 1993. He
has remained active in politics and last year sought to be
the governor of Kaduna State on the platform of the Labour
Party. In this interview, Magaji explains why he joined the
All Progressives Congress (APC) and talks about other
issues affecting the polity.
Daily Trust: How will you assess the promises made by
the APC before the elections vis-à-vis accomplishing
them so far?
James Bawa Magaji: I have always told the president in
person that I empathise with him because of the type of
followership he has. Everybody supported him and
everybody sees him as a miracle worker because things
really got to a bad state and everybody saw Buhari coming
in as the Messiah. The damage that has been done to this
country is enormous and even a miracle worker will not fix
this country in four years, let alone, one year. Between
2000 and 2010, crude oil price averaged about $120 a
barrel. The revenue that should have come into this
country definitely tripled more than what has accrued from
independence up to 1999, but, there is nothing to show for
it. Every person that was governor or minister from 1999
to 2015 just helped themselves.
These people sat without fear or shame and shared the
resources of this country. The era of PDP was just like
people who won battle over an area and were so desperate
over the spoils. They shared everything and did nothing.
They didn’t generate power and you could see that they
were outright thieves. For instance, for power supply, we
did privatisation - ideally, commonsense in privatisation
tells that you are supposed to sell what you have to get
the capital for other things. Where are the proceeds of all
the privatisation? We privatised almost everything, we
gave away all our patrilineal inheritances; even if we didn’t
sell crude oil at all from 2016-2023, we shouldn’t be where
we are today.
DT: How do you explain the fact that the fight against
corruption is tilted towards opposition party members?
Magaji: I do not only support the war against corruption, I
am eager to see it win. In fact, they are not fighting it as
hard as I wish. People are dying in the hospitals because
others are diverting money; people are dying on the roads
because there are no good roads and the money for
constructing new ones have been diverted. Is it not the
people’s rights that have been trampled upon? And why are
processes of conviction taking too long? I thought that
within a month or so, you would have tried and convicted
people. I mean, people should be in prison. My only anger
with government is that nobody is in prison yet. People
have to be in prison because we don’t have to continue
talking and talking, we must walk the talk. For people to be
convinced that we are fighting corruption, people have to
see practically that there are people in jail. But today, if
EFCC invites accused persons, they go with siren. This is
becoming disgusting and embarrassing. Of course, the fight
has to be one-sided because they (PDP) were the ones in
government.
I wish the government will get more aggressive in its fight
against corruption. I score Buhari 100 percent in his one
year because Nigerians voted for him to come and fight
corruption which held us back. Once we have a government
that can have the will to fight corruption and set standards,
successive governments will build on that and Nigeria will
be great. Just as former President Olusegun Obasanjo was
bold enough and pushed the military back from politics,
can’t you see that our democracy is growing? So, if Buhari
can fight corruption, make examples with those that have
looted, confiscate their loots and return it to the national
coffers and jail the perpetrators, that will put fear in people
and Nigeria will be better.
During General Murtala Mohammed’s regime, there was no
corruption because everybody was afraid, the government
was transparent and they were intolerant of corruption.
Murtala within six months did what others did for many
years. He charted the course for Nigeria, set a foundation
and liberated the whole of African continent. Everything
worked within six months. So, this is what is expected of
President Buhari.
DT: Do you think the names of looters should be published?
Magaji: This law they talk about surprises me sometimes.
What is the implication of publishing the name of a looter
who refunds his/her loot? Law is logic. We have all read
law in the course of our studies. Even if we didn’t read it
as a major course, we might have read it as an auxiliary
course. I expected that the names of the people who
returned money be published. The only way you can fight
corruption is by exposing the corrupt ones.
DT: Calls for the restructuring of Nigeria have suddenly
resurfaced. What is your take on this?
Magaji: Some people just say restructuring because they
hear others talk about it. I don’t ingest or take opinions of
any book. I read books of the greatest economists,
sociologists, and historians among others and I also
interpret and place their opinions on my own perception.
But some politicians, once they hear restructuring, they
also say they want restructuring because they want
popularity. What do they mean by restructuring?
Restructure what? Have you ever seen someone going forth
and back? We were regions before and it didn’t prove
effective because there were a lot of marginalisation. When
we were under the North-east, when we had the whole
Northern Nigeria, if we had remained like that, would Atiku
Abubakar have grown into what he is today? The
centralisation of everything took care of smaller tribes and
of course we can see the advantages in expanding and
giving identity to people by the number of states that were
created.
Are they trying to say that we should go back to the
regions or what? I don’t know what restructuring they are
talking about. Then, the talk about fiscal federalism; I
agree on fiscal federalism to the extent that every state or
people should go and work hard and produce something.
People should not sit down, for instance, and lazily say that
they have gold, so they want federalism so that they can
own the gold there. What these people are looking for is
war. To say that we should leave the resources of Nigeria
for them, please they should prepare for war. The
restructuring they are asking for is federalism that
everybody should own what is in their area and that is not
federalism. Our federalism is a perfect one, our fiscal
federalism is a perfect one. These unpatriotic elements
are not talking of federalism, but, they are campaigning for
confederation, which as you know, is a gateway to
balkanisation. I think Nigeria is already doing enough by
paying special derivative money to states where oil is
produced. Besides, government has been very fair because
this derivative principle should have applied to only oil that
is exploited onshore because it causes one ecological
problem or the other. And where the oil is drilled also
causes destruction to farm lands among others. But, the oil
that is taken from the ocean, the high sea far away, may
be 200 nautical miles away, yet, government gives
derivation on that. I do not think they deserve that but
government still gives. On top of that, there is Ministry for
Niger Delta where huge sums have been sunk into the
Niger Delta region.